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April 20, 2008

ilyas m mohsin, ppp, Platinum Contributor (250)

this quote from above article, "It seems more like a reflex whenever some group or state is not behaving the way the West wants it to and the latter apparently can do nothing to change that by coercive means." could have come from Hitler in his heyday. hamas may be fighting the occupation but dialogue is the only way out.

April 20, 2008

Lior Petek, University of St. Gallen, Gold Contributor (95)

See that is exactly what I am talking about. You just claim that “dialogue is the only way out” without even lending any argumentative support whatsoever for that. I elaborately explained in my article, why I think that talking to Hamas is futile. If you have arguments that support your claim or refute mine, then please let me know them. Otherwise, a sincere debate is not going to emerge.

Besides, it is ironic how you complain about my “reflex” statement yet showcase the exact same thing it deals with: Viewing dialogue as the magic formula without even seriously thinking it through.

By the way, as I have written in my article, Hamas is not “fighting the occupation”, they are fighting Israel. Or to put it differently, when Hamas says it is fighting against the “occupation of Palestine” or to “liberate Palestine”, it means by “Palestine” the whole of Israel and the territories it occupied in 1967. Any look at the Hamas Charter or at statements made by its officials will reveal that to you. Check:

www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html />

April 22, 2008

ilyas m mohsin, ppp, Platinum Contributor (250)

Who created hamas? It was the israeli secret service to try to undermine Fatah.
Political declarations etc are not always meant to be acted upon a hundred percent. More so when most US politicians are, reportedly, scared of the 'jewish lobby', what can hamas do. It is, generally, believed all over the world that Isreal has made illegal settlements in the west bank which makes Palestine a hostage to such land-grabbibg. This has been abetted by US and the poor arabs have no power to challange the status quo. Tanks are rolled out and air-power deployed if a mock-rocket gets fired from Gaza. This could be done in the Stalinist era or by Hitler. It appears to be going on as if this is the ideal way of dealing with the crisis; just because the arabs are weak, helpless and scared of US' complicity, in general.
Carter is an Honorable man; if he could work he may produce a formula whereby the jews and arabs can co-exist as human beings which should be the best way out.

April 22, 2008

Lior Petek, University of St. Gallen, Gold Contributor (95)

It is telling that you still did not come up with a single argument as to why talking to Hamas is “the only way out”. Instead you deviate from the topic by ranting about Israeli actions toward the “poor Arabs” who only employ “mock-rockets” using baseless comparisons such as “done in the Stalinist era or by Hitler”. I am afraid this is not going to convince me in any way of the superiority of your opinion.

The only argument-like statement I could identify is that “Political declarations etc are not always meant to be acted upon a hundred percent”, which I guess is directed at my premise that Hamas does not recognize Israel and wants to destroy it. Yet if this is the best you could put forth, then your case is obviously weak. Because how can you claim that Hamas is not acting upon its “Political declarations etc […] a hundred percent”, if in contrast this is exactly what Hamas is actually doing: Not recognizing Israel and by implication acting to destroy it. I simply fail to see your point.

As to “what can Hamas do”, I think the international community has explained that in a unanimous voice on more than one occasion: Recognize Israel’s right to exist, denounce terrorism and recognize the existing agreements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The PLO underwent this transformation und ended up with the Oslo Accords granting the Palestinians autonomy rights in the most populated areas. In contrast, what has Hamas achieved by refusing to comply with the demands of the international community? Nothing!

April 25, 2008

Fouad Naji Maarouf, Freie Universität Berlin, Bronze Contributor (23)

Israel should stop terrorism first and occupation and settelmanet biulding and comply to UN resolutions. Hamas has the right to exist as much as any libersation and resistance movement, didn´t the west view the PLO and Arafat before as terrorist organization? Well, lets have a fair look at the Problem and the west have with Hamas since they won their majority in the palasitnian parlianment.
The west just put Gaza under sieg, without carinh about the fate of any palastinians.
Israel is still accupying arabic lands, and takes military strikes at its neighbours such as Syria and Libanon, Did the west ever put it under presure? No, they always helped it during every war and biulding its nuclear capacity and weapons and now they´re complaining about Iran?! Hamas has the right to strike back at Israel as a risitance movement represitening a large part of the palastinian pople. Hamas also treid from the beginning to talk with the west and Israel, not accepting to be pressured to play to their rules. Abbas, who is running behind and illusion is ready to sell off his own nation for dollars and his corrupt companians did that already. What othrer choise do the palastinians have but to talk? They don´t have military power like Israel and the USA to occupy the Land that they want and to save their existance. Why is it that the US and West show so much simpayth for a Land and Problem they´ve created to get rid of the european jews, why do the palastinians and Arabs have to pay the price and suffer the consiquenses?
Jimmy Carter is maybe the only wise US politician who is trying to solve the problem and get things moving after years of Israelian arrogance and ignorance of the palastinian suffering. If you say talks don´t work, well lets celebrate another war in the region for the sake of Israel! Who knows, maybe it will wipe it self of f the card without any Iranian force!
If the US and the West keep backing Israel, that has been using them and spying on them, and keeps palying the role of holocaust victim, didn´t the world see how cruel they can get, Now its Gaza that is turning into a getto, will be seeing a palastinian holocaost, is that what the world needs so they could at last pay attention for the palastinans?? Did the Zionisits and jews learn anything after all?
Well, if Israel will continue in its path of arrogance and ignorance then they´ll have to pay for thier actions and not wonder why no one in the region likes them...Israel had the seed of self distruction since it was created...because it was a state created on occupation and racisism...That´s the Zionist idea that is not less dangerous than any nationalist of social nationalist idea that was created in the 1920s and 30s in Europe.

April 25, 2008

Lior Petek, University of St. Gallen, Gold Contributor (95)

The tons of spelling and grammar errors you committed just prove that your comment is nothing but hasty, unreflective and emotional ranting. As I have already told your predecessor, deviating from the topic I elaborated upon in my article – the futility of talking to Hamas – by such unscholarly ranting is not going to convince my in any way to change my opinion on that subject.

“[D]idn’t the [W]est view the PLO and Arafat before as [a] terrorist organization [and terrorist, respectively]?”:

Well, that is exactly what I was talking about. The fact that you have not noticed my elaboration on this topic in my second comment is just a further proof that your comment was written in a hasty and unreflective manner. So let me repeat it for you: Hamas will be worthy of being talked to the minute it starts recognizing Israel’s existence, denouncing terrorism and recognizing previous Israeli-Palestinian agreements just as it was the case with the PLO. As it will be only then that Hamas will be able and committed to contribute to a two-state solution. So I appreciate that you seem to share my view that talking to Hamas about a peace agreement is futile.

„Hamas also tr[ie]d from the beginning to talk with the [W]est and Israel, not accepting to be pressured to play [… by] their rules.“:

First of all, how could Hamas have possibly tried to talk to Israel if it does not recognize this state to begin with? Secondly, if Hamas does not accept the rules of the international community – that is, working toward a peaceful and secure two-state solution by recognizing Israel’s existence, denouncing terrorism and recognizing previous agreements – then it is its problem and it is itself that will be held accountable by all Palestinians who in contrast want to live in peace and security.

To conclude, let me make it clear that I am not going to reply anymore to comments that do not deal with the topic of my article in a direct, scholarly and substantive way.

May 3, 2008

ilyas m mohsin, ppp, Platinum Contributor (250)

Carter is a great American who has the courage/ capacity to defy the 'Israeli lobby' to which lesser guys submit readily. Why is Israel occcupying the Palestinian territories? Simply because of US support which is damaging her goodwill, cedibility etc among the Muslims at large. The latter may be weak but you can never tell. Unless a 2-state
solution is sinerely enforced by the US, there would be more terrorism etc. After all Begin, Sharon etc were terrorists of very high order in the late forties